-8

This answer (10k link) to Asking guys to quit shouting in a bar was deleted for claim

Hi! This doesn't really focus on what has been asked. You should also keep Be Nice policy in mind while answering. OP is asking for a non-aggressive approach to reach the group. Telling OP to mind their business and leave is not a solution. Please take a look at the question and try to answer accordingly. Feel free to flag it for review for undeletion once you've improved your answer.

Kindly un-delete the answer as it provides a viable solution.

  1. Stop being nosy, especially at a bar.
  2. Leave the bar if you cannot stop being nosy.
  3. If you refuse to stop being nosy and refuse to leave the bar, "No", it is not possible to "to get guys in this sort of situation to chill out, without being aggressively confrontational" who are already "shouting". That is a recipe for, at the minimum, serious bruises.

Before going into a bar explicitly tell anyone who am with, "remember, we are going into a bar" and "mind your own business". If anyone were to approach our group at a bar with the ridiculous request to "quit shouting" we would be correct to draw the conclusion that they were being nosy, listening to our conversation, and would necessarily be prepared to brawl with them.

Am not sure why the answer was deleted? The environment described is a bar where alcohol is served (alcohol influences human behaviour), with a group of shouting people, not a monastery where silence and niceties are expected.

There is no possible way to approach a group of shouting people at a bar without being confrontational. The approach itself is confrontational. If you want to believe that there is a way to do so, that is fine, though not applicable in reality. If you are not prepared to brawl until you or the other party loses the brawl, then you had best keep your mouth shut. You certainly cannot predict what the other party will do, no matter how many "Interpersonal Skills" threads you read on the Internet. The bar is not the Internet with mod-squad to save you from getting wholloped, or having to whollop someone else to defend yourself.

Mind your business. Don't be nosy. You cannot control others behaviour.

It must be a bug in the system which deleted this answer. Or the moderator who deleted the answer has never actually experienced trying to approach a group of shouting people at a bar, or been apart of the group shouting at the bar that was approached by a stranger who asked the group to "quit shouting".

It is a bad idea to try to approach a group of shouting people at a bar to suggest they "quit shouting".


Here is the full text of the answer:

Is there a way to get guys in this sort of situation to chill out, without being aggressively confrontational?

No.

From your own description of the other individuals' conversation at the bar you were being nosy in the first instance.

Mind your own business.

Leave immediately if you cannot help yourself from being nosy.

Or be prepared to brawl until either you or the other group leaves due to losing the brawl.

Have played chess in many different venues, from construction zones (try telling construction workers to stop shouting) to public parks to far more hostile environments, always with stakes on the line (generally do not play chess for free, unless playing with grandchildren when teaching them about the game). There is no chance in chess. There are no excuses in chess. Touch and move. You cannot undo your move. Have not once tried to blame noise or other peoples' activities on winning or losing a match of chess.

Some people (whom you apparently are not aware exist in this world; or maybe you are aware that they exist, thus why you did not approach those presumed ruffians as you obviously did not want to brawl with them) would not hesitate to immediately initiate a brawl when being approached (by friend, foe or stranger) at a bar being asked to "quit shouting", as that is a ridiculous request which on its face infers a challenge for a brawl.

you are describing is your own social ineptitude, not having anything to to with others' "shouting" or not "shouting". If you cannot handle the environment of a bar to play darts, then take the time to establish the venue that you prefer (though you still cannot control others "shouting" or doing anything they decide to do at that moment).

16
  • @AJ "OP is asking for a non-aggressive approach to reach the group. Telling OP to mind their business and leave is not a solution." Are you willing to personally accept responsibility and liability for any suggestion to approach a group of shouting people in a bar as a viable "solution" to the question including the circumstance where something goes horribly wrong when OP follows such a suggestion? – guest271314 Jul 2 '18 at 17:25
  • 2
    Have you made any edits to the answer since it was deleted? Have you addressed any of the concerns raised by the mod who deleted the post? Have you flagged it for review after improving the answer? There is an existing course of action that can be taken to get an answer undeleted. I suggest you try that. – sphennings Jul 2 '18 at 17:34
  • 4
    @sphennings taking it to meta isn't bad. The community can provide guidance on how to improve the answer, the mods will have some feedback too, and IPS will get closer to figuring out what it expects from answers ;) Just flagging it (with or without edits) will put all that responsibility in a mods hands. – Tinkeringbell Jul 2 '18 at 17:38
  • @sphennings Voted to "undelete" the answer. The answer should not have been deleted in the first place. No edit to the answer is necessary. The original answer and this question clearly states, it is a bad idea to try to approach a group of shouting people at a bar. OP needs to stop being nosy and mind their own business. If they cannot do that they need to stay the hell out of bars or a confrontation is bound to occur. One cannot predict how such a confrontation will end. Mod should be willing to personally accept liability for something going wrong during a would-be "non-aggressive" approach – guest271314 Jul 2 '18 at 17:38
  • Why was this question "down" voted? That makes absolutely no sense. Unless you have absolutely no experience with barroom brawls, and how horribly they can go for either side and innocent bystanders. – guest271314 Jul 2 '18 at 17:41
  • 2
    @Tinkeringbell I read this meta question as more asking for the answer to get undeleted rather than a question asking for an explanation of why the post was deleted. With that reading of the question there was already an answer provided. If the OP wants to ask why their answer was deleted perhaps it would be a good idea to edit the question to focus on that. – sphennings Jul 2 '18 at 17:43
  • 1
    @sphennings Yes, the answer should not have been deleted in the first place. There is no valid reason for the answer to have been deleted. Unless that mod personally accepts responsibility for the course of action that they personally suggest to approach a group of "shouting" people in a bar. The mod needs to post their answer and assume liability for something going wrong in their answer, else they are sending OP of the question to a possibly very hazardous situation, and will not be found when the hospital bills start piling up. BTW, have you ever personally been involved in a barroom brawl? – guest271314 Jul 2 '18 at 17:46
  • 1
    @sphennings People have been punched for simply approaching people at a bar, before a word even gets out of their mouth. Any answer which suggests it is a good idea to approach a group of shouting people at a bar needs to assume the liability of something going wrong. The original answer provides sage advice: stop being nosy; mind your own business; leave the bar if you cannot do the former two options. That is speaking from experience. – guest271314 Jul 2 '18 at 17:51
  • 2
    Do you have an actual question you want answered or are you just wanting a platform to argue from? If you're unsure about a bit of site policy and would like something clarified there are many users who would be glad to explain things to you. It seems to me like you're more interested in arguing than asking a question in good faith. – sphennings Jul 2 '18 at 17:52
  • @sphennings There is no argument. Do not have "faith" in anything. Was direct at the original question and am direct here. The answer should not have been "deleted". The answer should be immediately "undeleted". "down" vote as much as you want. It is a very bad idea to confront shouting strangers at a bar. OP needs to stop being nosy at the bar, mind their own business at the bar, or leave the bar. Have yet to read of any mod or user assuming responsibility of their suggested approach going horribly wrong. Am providing an answer based on experience, not speculation. – guest271314 Jul 2 '18 at 17:55
  • 8
    I strongly suggest being open to the possibility that your understanding of site policy might be flawed. – sphennings Jul 2 '18 at 17:58
  • @sphennings This is not about "site policy". That is your concern. Am speaking to the human being which could easily get into a situation where thing go horribly wrong; including innocent bystanders being affected. – guest271314 Jul 2 '18 at 17:59
  • 1
    Seems like a bit of a rant. Unsure whether there is a valid question here. Voted to close. Hopefully the OP will revisit to focus on asking why their post was deleted, rather than misguidedly insisting it is fine and should be undeleted. – Rory Alsop Jul 9 '18 at 8:45
  • @RoryAlsop Already decided the answer is fine. There is no need to ask why the post was deleted. There is nothing misguided about the question. Again, the original answer is direct and to the point. – guest271314 Jul 9 '18 at 14:32
  • 3
    @guest271314 You deciding that the answer is fine, would be great if your perspective was the only one that mattered on this site. I've found that it's useful to be aware of and consider perspectives other than one's own, especially when it cones to large, collectively governed, communities such as this one. Note how your repeated assertions to the fact that the question should be reopened haven't lead to the question being reopened. It seems a reasonable hypothesis that there are other perspectives at play here that may have reached a different conclusion. – sphennings Jul 9 '18 at 15:45
9

It looks like your answer was deleted because it was rude and failed to address the question.

Your answer was effectively a "don't do that" which was already covered in more than one answer, with some unrelated experience about chess tacked on... Beyond that, you equated being annoyed by people shouting at full volume with eavesdropping, which doesn't make much sense. And called the OP, me, socially inept, which while possibly accurate wasn't necessary or called for...

You could edit your answer to remove the insulting tone, and choose a more closely related experience to back it up with, but then it would just reiterate points already made in other answers.

11
  • There is no insult involved. That is a rational assessment of the circumstance. Did not fail to do anything. Was direct at the answer as have been direct at every question, answer and comment. The important point is that you got the message. – guest271314 Jul 2 '18 at 18:01
  • 6
    @guest271314 Perhaps your interpretation of how other people will read your answer is incorrect. This answer is at least some evidence to that effect. – sphennings Jul 2 '18 at 18:05
  • @sphennings OP got the message. The answer is direct. The very question as to how to confront a group of shouting people at a bar without appearing to be aggressive necessitates the requirement to be prepared to engage in a barroom brawl. That reveals the naiveté of the question itself. The decision to approach the group period is aggressive. What matters is for OP to not approach people at a bar unless OP is prepared to brawl until they or the group loses. More hazardous is people holding grudges when being confronted, smiling and no longer shouting, but starting a brawl, or worse, later. – guest271314 Jul 2 '18 at 18:17
  • 4
    @guest271314 not sure if you noticed, but I am the author of the original question... And I can assure you that "naiveté" or not recognizing the potential for violence wasn't the issue. Note the paragraph "The old me would have went straight to open hostility and potential violence, but I'm trying real hard not to be that person anymore. Jail is unpleasant and filled with these sorts of situations." – apaul Jul 2 '18 at 19:49
  • @apaul Then you already knew the answer was to 1) stop being nosy; and 2) mind your own business; or 3) leave the bar. You could not leave jail on your own accord, but since you mentioned jail, you certainly know the first two list items apply, and cannot be debated or argued with. There is no "lights out" at a bar, so the very notion of formulating in your mind to "confront" a "group" of people to ask them to "quit shouting", in any way, is tantamount to asking for a brawl. – guest271314 Jul 2 '18 at 20:08
  • 1
    @guest271314 Yet here you are arguing about them. :p Posts on the main site have to meet a certain standard to remain undeleted. For answers that includes that they aren't rude, and answer the question, among other things. As it is currently written at least one mod has determined that your post doesn't meet the criteria to remain undeleted. Instead of repeating over and over again that your answer was deleted unfairly and insisting that it must be reopened, you might want instead to ask "Why was my post deleted? What can I do to get my post undeleted?" – sphennings Jul 2 '18 at 20:13
  • 6
    @guest271314 We expect all users on this site to be nice. No exceptions. Content that isn't nice will be removed. – sphennings Jul 2 '18 at 20:17
  • 1
    @sphennings The content of the answer is nice. It is direct communication. Do not coddle own grandchildren, will certainly not coddle supposed adults. OP admits in their answer that they are potentially socially inept, as does this user. That has nothing to do with "rude" or "nice", those are facts. The moment one attempts to adjust facts to "be nice" then one begins lying. Shall not lie under the misguided premise of being "nice", to be "nice" is to be direct, and state facts. Adults can then make rational decisions. If you want pure niceties, go to etiquette school under some doting marm – guest271314 Jul 2 '18 at 20:18
  • 1
    @sphennings OP mentions jail. If OP went to general population and not directly to protective custody, then the first two list items were the first two rules OP got introduced to immediately upon entering wherever they were housed. OP could not leave jail on their own accord, that is, point 3. They could leave the bar. The rules were certainly not delivered in a "nice" way in jail. And no one was concerned with not being "rude" while delivering the rules. OP should have recollected those rules immediately when playing darts at the bar. There is no "lights out" at the bar, until the bar closes. – guest271314 Jul 2 '18 at 20:26
  • 5
    @guest271314 When talking about site policy and why your question was closed how things work outside the bounds of this site are irrelevant. It doesn't matter if what you said in your post is true or not, what matters is does it meet the criteria for a post on this site. If you want to get your post undeleted I suggest understanding the site policy that lead to it getting deleted and either making a case that your post shouldn't have been deleted because of site policy or making edits to your post to have it conform to said policy. – sphennings Jul 2 '18 at 20:31
  • 1
    Please try to keep future comments related to this answer. We are more lenient with comments on meta than we are on main but unrelated discussion isn't appropriate. – sphennings Jul 2 '18 at 20:32
1

I'd like to remind you that each and every exchange is a community which, through their own meta and Stack Exchange as a whole, has created their own site policies of what is and what isn't appropriate for that exchange. You've seen many mentions to site policies; these aren't exclusively upheld by moderators. In fact, most of the time it's the community which determines if content belongs on the site.

The community has decided that your answer did not. I don't have the reputation to see just how this answer was deleted, however (as I understand it), either 3 users unanimously agreed your answer merited deletion, or a user flagged it as such and a moderator agreed. For the record, I assume it was the former (it usually is).

Further, you said in the comments you flagged the answer for undeletion. That would move it to an undeletion queue, where users will vote on whether or not your answer merits undeletion. The fact that it is still deleted means they decided it does not.

The next step is the one you've taken: ask about the question on meta (which you've mangled a little, as it should typically be presented as "why was this question deleted?" Then, once you receive an answer, you can use that advice to edit your answer until the community approves of it). At this step too, the community has categorically disagreed with you, hence the downvotes to your question and the upvotes to the answer.

At this point, you have two options. You can continue to bang your head against the wall, emphatically arguing that your answer is perfect at-is, and that the community is wrong for disagreeing with you. I have to let you know: that simply isn't going to work. In the exact same way you suggest someone shouldn't go into a bar and demand everyone be quiet, you don't get to go into an exchange and demand everyone accept your answer. That's not the environment here.

Alternatively, you can absorb what people are saying here and edit your answer accordingly. They are correct. Your answer adds very little to what other answers have said, and in addition, it is not nice to the OP. You may disagree, but "nice" is a relative term, and here on this exchange, in this context, by the standard set by our community, your answer is not nice.

So, again, if you're adamant that your answer is objectively correct, then you're not going to see it back on that page, because it does not conform to what the community wants or expects. Even if a moderator decides to undelete your answer, the community is going to delete it again. Your answer wasn't a good fit before; it's not going to be a good fit. If you want your answer undeleted, you have to edit it.

3
  • 1
    It takes 3 users with sufficient rep to delete an answer with a negative score. A significant fraction of the deleted answers are removed through user action not moderator intervention. – sphennings Jul 16 '18 at 20:09
  • @sphennings oh thanks, I've updated that number. But yeah, I don't know the stats, but as far as I know, I agree mods very rarely (pretty much never?) get involved in deleting a non-abusive answer. – Lord Farquaad Jul 16 '18 at 20:11
  • 2
    It's hard to get accurate information about deleted answers. If it has a positive score it needs a mod to delete it. Mods definitely prefer it when the community handles what it can leaving them to handle the exceptional cases. – sphennings Jul 16 '18 at 20:21

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .