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Deleting my Answer was completely unjustified.

My Answer is still not restored and no justification for it's deletion has been provided. Please update me on this situation before I escalate.

I want to know exactly what was wrong with it. I'd be happy to address it but none of the comments required any change since they were either based on the commenter not reading the entire Question or no reading the entire Answer.

Tell me exactly which comments need to be addressed. And please explain this was "recommended by the community" with >10 upvotes.

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    Just a tip from someone who has spent too much time arguing on meta... Consider your tone when writing these. Asking why without sounding accusatory or upset will tend to yeild better results. – apaul Oct 9 '18 at 22:38
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    To be clear, my sister did read the ingredient list. She wouldn't have known that there was cheese in it otherwise. (And I do find the assumption that my sister is untrustworthy kind of insulting) – Ael Oct 10 '18 at 5:44
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    @Noon Then please update the question to indicate this. You merely state that she was sure but that' still hearsay and not worth risking a confrontation over. If she checked the ingredients, the would eliminate the ambiguity. – Johns-305 Oct 10 '18 at 14:23
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    @Johns-305 I can't, I don't plan on asking her if she, indeed, checked the ingredient list so, yes, it's hearsay but I trust her. – Ael Oct 10 '18 at 14:37
  • @Noon To be clear, I suggested that you check the ingredients before confronting Auntie. "Trust, but verify." It's not worth upsetting Auntie even more if a different mistake was made. – Johns-305 Oct 10 '18 at 14:39
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    I might have if it was doable but the ingredient list was already in the trash when my sister told me it wasn't vegan, so... Anyway, this isn't the place to talk about that. – Ael Oct 10 '18 at 15:28
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    In response to your edit, please review Tinkeringbell's comment from over a month ago. We've already provided the justification in that answer and comments below it; if you feel the moderation here was incorrect you can escalate, otherwise please edit your answer as requested if you'd like it to be undeleted. – Em C Nov 29 '18 at 15:33
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    Again, I'll have to refer you to that comment: "we've clearly explained why the comments aren't wrong." If our reasoning is not clear that's one thing, but it sounds like you understand but disagree, so I don't think continuing to argue about it here will be productive. – Em C Nov 29 '18 at 16:02
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    @Johns-305 Are you sure that you do? If you did, wouldn't your answer have already been undeleted? It might be a good idea to try to diagnose the breakdown between what you think should happen and what is actually happening. Repeatedly saying that your answer complies with this sites policies doesn't seem have the desired effect. Perhaps it's time to try a different approach. – sphennings Nov 29 '18 at 16:17
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    @Johns-305 While my answer was quoting site policy before, I've edited it now to add two references. Again, the main problem here is your lack of explanation of the thought process behind the answer. – scohe001 Nov 29 '18 at 16:30
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    I've given you highly upvoted and accepted Meta answers (one from a Community Manager). I'm not sure what more concrete policies I can point you to. What "specific examples" are you looking for? – scohe001 Nov 29 '18 at 16:47
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    You've had two Moderators and a slew of high-rep users looking at this and trying to discuss why your answer was deleted and what would need to do to change that. If you still believe that none of us have read the question/answer or are listening to you, I'd strongly suggest you take Tink's suggestion, because I believe I've said all I can. – scohe001 Nov 29 '18 at 17:00
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    You can expect it to be restored when your answer has been edited to address the issues explained in my answer: adding backup and directly answering the question that was asked. It will not be considered for undeletion without an edit. If you're unsatisfied with this, feel free to escalate. – Em C Nov 29 '18 at 17:36
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    @Johns-305 : EmC obviously doesn't agree with your view and you can't convince them otherwise. So, feel free to address your concern directly here – Ael Nov 29 '18 at 18:48
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    If you think they will just "magically" change their mind, I'm pretty sure you are losing your time. But do as you wish. – Ael Nov 29 '18 at 19:04
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Here is the review task for your answer: 6 out of 6 reviewers recommended deletion. That's what the "as recommended by the community" part referred to.

Post score is not an indication of well-supported, quality answers, as defined by site policy, so please don't use that as your barometer. People may be voting simply because they agree with the action recommended, regardless of quality (which frequently happens when questions end up on the "Hot Network Questions" sidebar, attracting visitors from other sites on the network, who aren't familiar with our standards).


Here are the comments requesting improvements -

From Avazula:

OP said they were sure there was cheese in it. As weird as it is to find cheese in hummus, please don't insinuate OP was making assumptions here. Also, even though it is allowed on this stack to offer frame-challenge answers, we expect them to come with explanation on why OP shouldn't pursue their original goal. Would you mind editing your answer accordingly?

From Tinkeringbell:

[...] Would you be so kind as to edit your answer and explain how Noon can let her aunt know that the food wasn't vegan?

From Warlord 099:

Can you explain your reasoning as to why telling her you didn't like the taste of the food is an appropriate response? I am concerned that it could still hurt her feelings because you didn't like something she put effort into buying/preparing. How do you propose OP can avoid that outcome?


So in my reading of it, this is the section of your answer that actually addresses the "How do I communicate" aspect:

If was some sort of cheese (very unlikely for hummus unless it was feta)...lie. Just tell her you didn't like that brand or flavor and try something new. It's already in the past so bringing it up again won't accomplish much.

There are two big problems:

  1. There's no explanation of why this is a good idea.
  2. There's no explanation of how this accomplishes OP's goal of communicating the mistake to her aunt so that the aunt doesn't make the same mistake in the future.

Note that we require answers to be backed up and include some sort of explanation as to why you think this will accomplish OP's goals. As the comments above noted, you haven't done that. What makes your answer credible? Have you done this before? Do you have a solid line of reasoning that led you to the conclusion that this is the best solution? Why do you believe this will result in the aunt not accidentally buying non-vegan hummus again? For that matter, why will this not hurt the aunt's feelings? While these things may seem obvious to you, they're not in your answer.

If you're attempting to frame challenge, you still need to address the actual question. See the FAQ entry on frame challenges, which links to this post. It's not okay to say "I think your goal is bad, so don't do it." What you can do is say "I think your proposed method is bad because of [insert reasons here], so instead you should accomplish your goal by [alternate method here]."

This was something Tinkeringbell mentioned as well:

A frame challenge would still have as a result that Noon in some way communicates to their aunt that they mistakenly bought something not vegan, your answer doesn't address that.


Side note: I see you said that you responded to Warlord 099 in a previous comment, but comments are not considered part of an answer - if you think the comment explained your reasons, it should be edited into your answer.

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    So, seems no one read the Question or Answer... OP: "she was sure that there was cheese in it" This is hearsay. OP needs to know for sure. OP: "I never saw the ingredients list". Avazula miss these important points. OP is not sure of the ingredients. – Johns-305 Oct 9 '18 at 22:05
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    My Answer is "Don't". If it was cheese, don't say anything. I explained in the nest line. There's nothing that can change the situation now. – Johns-305 Oct 9 '18 at 22:07
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    It's fine to suggest that OP independently verify the ingredients list before saying anything. But assume that the sister was correct - what then? You need to account for that too. – Em C Oct 9 '18 at 22:08
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    Third, ok, maybe this could be clarified a smidge. Presumably, OP doesn't want Auntie to buy the same hummus again. A way to spare her feelings is to just say OP didn't like it, which is irrelevant to being a Vegan. – Johns-305 Oct 9 '18 at 22:10
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    If it was Vegan hummus, then there's nothing to tell Auntie. I don't understand you point. Sister being 'sure' is not the same as OP being sure before bringing it up. – Johns-305 Oct 9 '18 at 22:11
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    So far, I still don't see anything wrong. All of the comments were based on a misreading of the Question. I'll add to point two if that's what it takes. – Johns-305 Oct 9 '18 at 22:13
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    It is not a frame challenge because I didn't not present an alternative. Tinkeringbell misread my comment. That was an example of a frame challenge...that I was not offering. – Johns-305 Oct 9 '18 at 22:15
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    I'll also note that the Accepted Answer is basically telling OP to use a lie of omission. Undelete? ;) – Johns-305 Oct 9 '18 at 22:23
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    The question is "How to communicate to my aunt that she made an honest mistake". Lying does not communicate that there was a mistake. That's why people are bringing up frame challenges. In contrast, the accepted answer does contain explanation for why not to point out this specific mistake, what to do instead, and why that will work so the aunt doesn't accidentally make the same mistake again. – Em C Oct 9 '18 at 22:31
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    @Johns-305 You need to tell us (and edit into your answer) why you think what you think. Why do you say that "bringing it up again won't accomplish much" and why lying will prevent my aunt from buying it again (do you have similar past experience where you successfully used this technic?) – Ael Oct 10 '18 at 15:28
  • I've address every point yet the Answer is still Deleted. When will this be corrected? – Johns-305 Oct 11 '18 at 14:13
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    @Johns-305 The only point you've addressed so far is adding a sentence explaining why to check the ingredients first. The other issues raised above still apply. As I said in my comment there, once you've edited to improve it, you can raise a mod flag and we'll review it for undeletion. – Em C Oct 11 '18 at 14:29
  • I have clearly explained why the comments are wrong and quoted the relevant text. – Johns-305 Oct 11 '18 at 14:38
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    And we've clearly explained why the comments aren't wrong. If you feel moderation on this site is failing, you can always send your complaint using the contact us link at the bottom of the page, otherwise, please address the comments if you want your answer undeleted. – Tinkeringbell Oct 11 '18 at 14:46
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Looking at your original answer without the message you added after it was deleted...

First, check the ingredients of that brand and flavor yourself. It could have been tofu sprinkled on top.

OP clearly states that their sister first told them there was cheese, and then they double checked with the sister later and confirmed there was cheese. Furthermore, this information doesn't do anything towards helping solve OP's problem of communicating to the aunt.

If was some sort of cheese (very unlikely for hummus unless it was feta)...lie. Just tell her you didn't like that brand or flavor and try something new. It's already in the past so bringing it up again won't accomplish much.

Here you give some advice that OP can act on. Let's come back to this in a second.

Keep in mind, you choose this behavior so you're right to not want someone to feel badly about trying to accommodate it.

This last part seems like general advice for being vegan. Something akin to "you did this to yourself, get over it." Again, this doesn't really do anything to answer the question "how can I communicate to my aunt...?" and so doesn't add anything to the answer.


All in all, your answer consists of that second paragraph. Taking out most of the first sentence since it's basically a continuation of the false assumption in the first paragraph, your answer boils down to:

[L]ie. Just tell her you didn't like that brand or flavor and try something new. It's already in the past so bringing it up again won't accomplish much.

Does this communicate that the aunt made an honest mistake despite thinking she bought vegan food? Or if you're trying to frame challenge, does this explain why approaching the aunt is not a good idea? Does this explain why this is a better idea or the correct idea? You do nothing to back this answer up. Per site policy, "Do this"-style short answers are discouraged and will be deleted.

You also had comments on your answer asking you for more on your logic:

Can you explain your reasoning as to why telling her you didn't like the taste of the food is an appropriate response?

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    On the first point, it's very important that the ingredients are verified. As in noted in a response comment, there is no indication Sister check the ingredients. She just saw something that looked like cheese. Imagine if OP confronted Auntie, then Auntie produces the package and is now offended because OP thought Auntie didn't know cheese isn't vegan. This is important to not make the situation worse. – Johns-305 Oct 9 '18 at 21:38
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    @Johns-305 asking how certain OP is that it was cheese would be a comment on the main post. – scohe001 Oct 9 '18 at 21:40
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    On the third part, yes, it's important because, even though she hides it, Auntie might be a bit frustrated (a lot of people are, that just how it is) that OP has all these 'special' requirements and she's trying to accommodate. There are Vegan memes for a reason. – Johns-305 Oct 9 '18 at 21:41
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    Well, no. OP made the situation reasonable clear in the Question. Neither she nor Sister actually checked the ingredients. That's step one of the advice. – Johns-305 Oct 9 '18 at 21:44
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    Besides, again, that's an unreasonable high bar and simple doesn't happen with consistence anywhere on SO. Every answer has an element of presumption. – Johns-305 Oct 9 '18 at 21:45
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    You're not wrong that every answer has presumption, but we discourage "Do this." answers here. You need to at least explain why you're presuming what you presume. Why did you write what you wrote? That's all we're asking. – scohe001 Oct 9 '18 at 21:46
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    Seriously? Because "without upsetting her" is a top level provision of the question. Are you really saying that people can't understand the OP should verify the situation before confronting Auntie? What if it wasn't cheese. As I said, that would probably upset her even more. – Johns-305 Oct 9 '18 at 21:49
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    "she was sure that there was cheese in it" is hearsay. OP needs to know for sure. Why is this so hard to understand? Further, "I never saw the ingredients list". Again, what if it wasn't cheese? – Johns-305 Oct 9 '18 at 21:53
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    Actually, I just proved I didn't presume anything, only Sister. – Johns-305 Oct 9 '18 at 21:55

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