IPS' specific comment requirements & why comments can be useful

Question

Some constructive feedback and observations from my visit here.

TL;DR;

1. Information being in comments that would make good answers can be detrimental to the site
2. Information in comments are not always worthy of being an answer, but should still be shared if it's useful information
3. Information being shared in comments is better than it not being shared at all (due to a rule that (essentially) states "no help, advice, or information in comments")

(1) is the (or partly) reason this site only allows comments that are request for info or improvement to the question - no info or advice etc. The problem with (1) is prevalent across Stack Exchange sites, and has been attempted to be resolved over and over again. There's nothing you can do about it other than ask commentors to instead answer, or create an answer if they don't.

However, having that rule impedes on (2) and (3), which is also detrimental to the site.

end TL;DR;

 

I understand why a site might want to implement specific requirements for comments if it makes sense for the context on that site. However, this is a very uncommon thing to do for a Stack Exchange (hence nowhere to make it official) and so could easily be confusing. On pretty much all other Stack Exchange sites comments serve for a very different purpose - information is allowed in comments.

Comments potentially being bad is not unique to this site. All (or many) sites suffer from:

1. A loss of good answers because someone posted a comment instead
2. Chatty comments
3. Rude or otherwise useless comments
4. Etc

(1) is really bad and we try to avoid it to ensure quality Q&As on the sites, however while removing the ability to add info to comments removes the potential for someone to answer in a comment instead of in an answer, it in no way guarantees that they will instead put that information into an answer.

What it does guarantee is the potential for people to simply not bother sharing their knowledge. I have had some amazing advice in comments, and yes I'd argue entirely that they should have been answers! BUT the rule here means I potentially would NOT have even obtained that information.

Just because there is "information" contained within a comment does not automatically make it eligible to be an answer. Often it requires much more time and work to make it a decent answer, or to even be viable as an answer at all.

Trivial answers are not welcome, and short answer can even be converted to comments automatically by the system, this is why Stack Exchange has comments, for information that is not an answer. But by only allowing information in answers, you reduce a potential for good information.

 

I get that this site's required use for comments is also about the content you will receive here, not just generic problems with comments:

Comments can only be for asking for clarification or question improvements

Again, people coming here could be confused given how comments work on (pretty much) all other Stack Exchange sites. Not catering for this potential confusion and dissatisfaction and not making it very clear how your comments work is just potentially lining up the community of this site for a lot of arduous work and debates from newcomers.

I'd argue that you'll have more time spent chasing comments that don't belong here due to confusion around the specific requirements, than you would just allowing "normal" comments and cleaning up off topic ones. Certainly without it being made clear, but being limited to where you can explain this is another reason why I think it's just going to be more problematic than any gain it may bring.

So as there is no where on this site where I'm told I have to "officially" adhere to not using comments to give quick advice, means deleting my comment is just seen as a bit rude and too harsh moderating, and will just annoy people.

 

Attempted Information

While changing the text of the "add comment" might work sometimes, it is not a great solution for those coming from other Stack Exchange sites, as I imagine most are like me whereby I just clicked the blue link under the comments and didn't even read the text. When it was pointed out to me that this site's "add a comment" wording is different, I had to go look for myself to see it, and I'd already left a number of comments in different places by that point.

 

Information Comments Can Be Good

It's just not that black and white to state "useful info should be in an answer".

Sometimes it is just quick advice that's not worthy of an answer, and there is nothing wrong with this. Surely the main value of Stack Exchange is "providing information" whether it should have been an answer or comment is a potential problem, but should we really lose that information just because it doesn't fit into where we want it? Is this not:

Cutting one's nose of to spite one's face?

There are many people who agree:
https://meta.stackexchange.com/a/1557/230506
and
https://meta.stackexchange.com/a/4271/230506

That's not a Shog hunt, just happened naturally from the topics I was searching - 49 others agree with the two answers.

Comments are useful:
https://meta.stackexchange.com/a/133286/230506
https://meta.stackexchange.com/a/4218/230506
On just those two posts, 195 users agree

 

I made a comment that was deleted, on this question:
My mom is being "nice". But it's unwanted. How do I get her to stop?
I stated

You could suggest going shopping together and let you choose something for yourself. Just be tactful as her actions come from good intentions. I know that doesn't make it ok, but look at mothers in human and animals the world over, it's about protection, ensuring you're safe and happy. That often wont stop even when you get older. It's not a sign that they think know best or that you can't manage without her, it's more about the very nature of motherly love - they strive to make you happy in an entirely selfless way (not all of them, or always, of course, just generally)

The first sentence is fair advice, but alone is not worthy of an answer. I didn't want to write out a full answer due to being short on time but also there is also a comment asking for more information to be able to provide a good answer.

The rest of my comment is purely general advice and would not be construed as answering the question. I would have likely been downvoted.

So I didn't answer and instead commented. Had my comment been left there would be a little bit of nice advice there, for the OP or anyone else reading it.

Someone else tried to answer, and met with a downvote and moderator suggesting that "this reads more like a suggestion than an answer". I don't disagree, but is it really a good thing to entirely delete that useful information away from a site that is at it's core designed to provide information?

Answer 1

One quick thing to note, right off the bat: The four Meta SE posts you cite are nine years old. The network was really, really different back then. Honestly, it wasn't even a network, it was maybe a handful of sites, still focused on computers and tech. Things have changed a lot since then. Nine years ago, nobody could have anticipated the existence of IPS. Those posts don't represent the ever-changing attitudes of a rapidly-expanding set of communities.

Often it requires much more time and work to make it a decent answer, or to even be viable as an answer at all.

. . .

I didn't want to write out a full answer due to being short on time

I'm gonna reiterate what I said in the answer I know you read: If you don't have time to write a full answer, or don't have enough information to justify it, or are honestly just too lazy to expand on your thoughts (and I use the general "you" here to address the reader - not James specifically), don't write an answer. We don't give posts a free pass just because the author wasn't, for one reason or another, able to spend enough time on them; they're treated the same way as any other post.

Here's another thing: Comments aren't subject to review. There are review queues for the first posts of new users, or for late answers to old questions. There's a low quality posts queue for the worst of. There's the ability to downvote poor answers, and, for those with enough rep, to delete them. There's oversight, and review, all from the community.

Virtually none of that oversight applies to comments. You can't downvote comments, or vote to delete them, or send them through review queues. Mods can delete; unless the community casts enough flags, that's the only way to get them out of there. I think you're assuming - maybe justifiably - that comments usually contain helpful stuff. I've seen some of the worst comments on the site - thousands of 'em. And there's a lot of bad content. A lot.

I would have likely been downvoted.

So . . . don't use comments to get around peer review, and the systems and features that allow good content to rise to the top. If you're using a comment to avoid downvotes, maybe the advice given isn't actually good enough to be posted.

Again, people coming here could be confused given how comments work on (pretty much) all other Stack Exchange sites. Not catering for this potential confusion and dissatisfaction and not making it very clear how your comments work is just potentially lining up the community of this site for a lot of arduous work and debates from newcomers.

Two things here:

• Comments aren't for answers - anywhere on the network. Check out the help center on any site; it'll tell you the same thing. The one major difference with our comments policy is that we strictly enforce it.
• It's totally fine if someone doesn't know the norms of the site. I sympathize. It's natural. But having a comment deleted isn't punishment, nor is it a personal judgment on the user. If someone wants to know more, or understand a moderation - hey, we've got a site for that. Ask away, and we'll be happy to help.

There's a learning curve, but the information's available. We're been here again and again and again.

Answer 2

In addition to HDE's comprehensive answer, I'd just like to add another perspective.

Our site is special. We have very few questions asked a day¹ but we get a huge amount of traffic in comparison². This means we get a lot of attention on our hot questions (which tends to be a high percentage of them).

Because of this, our comments have been out of control in the past. With no formal stance in place, there've be 20/30/40+ comments on questions and answers suggesting alternate solutions and arguing their merits/fallbacks, burying important edit suggestions or clarification questions.

While I agree with a lot of what you're saying, on this site it's simply not feasible to allow these kinds of comments. If we allow it for one or two that we deem "good suggestions," we open the floodgates for everyone else.

As such, we've decided that all comments are temporary fixtures, to be acted on and eventually deleted, or--if there's nothing to act on (it's a possible answer/advice)--then it'll be deleted immediately.

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^{1. Just ran the numbers from analytics, we have an average of 8 questions/day since we opened for public beta a little less than a year ago.}

^{2. We've had an average of 28,170 page views a day since February when we started collecting this data. That's on average more than 3,500 views/new question a day!!}