Differentiating on and off topic - How?

Question

Yesterday, Shog9 laid down some ground rules in chat for what definitely isn't on topic on this site (source), namely:

It is, most emphatically, NOT a site chartered to discuss any of the following:

• Human sexuality
• Relationships
• Neurolinguistic programming
• How to win friends and influence people
• Politics
• General discussion

So. We have quite a few questions about relationships, quite a few questions touching on highly political topics and quite a few questions which are essentially discussion. And quite a few questions about making friends and influencing people.

Now the challenge is where to differentiate between which of these questions are really about interpersonal interactions and merely have these topics as a setting, and which of these questions are fundamentally off topic for the site according to these guidelines.

So how can we distinguish off topic questions from on topic questions with general settings like relationships or friendships? Where do we draw the line? How do we draw the line here?

related: Let's start working on our help center "what to ask" text!

Answer 1

TLDR: None of the topics mentioned in the question are off-topic per definition. The bickering about these topics, including bickering about answers and edits, IS.

---

It is, most emphatically, NOT a site chartered to discuss any of the following:

• Human sexuality
• Relationships
• Neurolinguistic programming
• How to win friends and influence people
• Politics
• General discussion

This statement wasn't made to tell us what was off/on topic, with regards to topics. The statement includes some examples of topics that tend to raise debates when mentioned in a post.

We're not here to answer

Is this remark racist?

This probably falls under 'general discussion'. Here's a statement, now fight! I'll accept the answer that confirms my own views. There isn't an Interpersonal problem here that needs to be solved.

Such questions will lead to debate right away, and are hightly opinion based. Close these questions as opinion based or off-topic, whether or not something is racist isn't an interpersonal skill.

We can answer

Someone told me my reply to the street vendor was rude. How do I appropriately dismiss a street vendor?

We're not here to discus whether the reply was really rude. We're here to give answers that provide alternative means of dismissing a street vendor.

---

That doesn't mean questions touching any of these topics mentioned above are per definition off-topic here. It does mean that we need to move on to what was said in the second half of that list of rules:

If you do want a site for Q&A on interpersonal communications, then you must be willing to help build it. That means:

• Editing questions to ensure they are within that scope
• Answering questions that fall within that scope such that the asker and future readers have the tools needed to solve their current and future communications problems
• Editing answers that stray from that goal
• Leaving comments that prompt the askers to clarify their questions and answerers to focus their answers
• Flagging and/or deleting questions or answers that cannot be salvaged by editing.
• Discussing problems that you cannot solve on your own with other members of the site so as to arrive at a solution that can be collaboratively implemented. It does NOT mean:
• expecting to always be right
• asserting that you are always right
• refusing to accept that the rules apply to you as they do to everyone else
• refusing to accept the outcome of a discussion when it would prevent you from doing or saying whatever you might want to do or say in a given moment
• throwing out unsubstantiated accusations or otherwise tying up the time of other members of the site that could better be used doing one of the things listed above. Again, if anyone reading this cannot accept that... Quit.

As I've said before, these 'rules' aren't about whats on-/off topic here. It's about what we need from the community to avoid a total derailment of the site.

---

IPS questions are in general pretty popular. Last week, I think I saw at least 4 questions in HNQ the entire week. But, these are also the sort of questions were a certain degree of bickering over answers/comments took place. They attract some 'disaster tourism'. The ones that have the most arguments or offer the best opportunity for people to voice their opinion on the matter stay in HNQ for a very long time. This one was there for about 2 weeks if I recall correctly.

Take a look at the comments there. They are exactly the kind of thing Shog was warning us about: Arguing about the wording of an answer. Is it victim blaming or not?

• Neither user is the OP of the answer.
• We shouldn't be bickering about victim blaming here.
• We should be focusing on helping the OP find some Interpersonal Skill she can use while in a pool, out of the lifeguards reach and being harassed by another swimmer.

If we think a should would read better as a could, that might be pointed out in a comment. That is 'suggesting an improvement'. Starting a comment thread arguing on the OP's behalf whether or not they meant to actually do victim blaming IS NOT OKAY HERE!

Even better would be to edit it in right away, and explain in the editing message to the OP why you have done so. This will avoid a lot of bickering, because other people than the OP of an answer are much less likely to get involved!

If there was bickering, and someone did an edit and the bickering stopped, don't run to reverse the edit. Accept that the post in its original form wasn't the best fit for a Q&A forum.

---

We will have to start living by these rules Shog set out, whether we like it or not.

• If that means being even more strict on our questions and answers, so be it.
• If that means no more questions in HNQ because they aren't 'controversial' enough for disaster tourists, so be it.
• If that means removing all comment threads and pointing our new users to Shog's rules when they ask 'why was my post removed', so be it.
• If that means we should make some serious work of our Help Center text ASAP, so be it.

---

So how can we distinguish off topic questions from on topic questions with general settings like relationships or friendships? Where do we draw the line? How do we draw the line here?

• Questions about interactions taking place within these general settings are okay. Example: "How do I disclose to a friend that I'm LGBT+?" is a good question. But so is "How do I tell my friend I'm not comfortable hanging out with him anymore, now that I know he is LGBT+?"
• Answers to these questions should focus on the interpersonal aspect of these questions: "How to tell a friend". Not on whether or not the OP has a right to be LGBT+ or if the OP has a right to be uncomfortable.
• As for relationships: No asking who should I date, is this person flirting or not, do I break up. What is a good thing to ask is 'When and how do I disclose I earn a lot of money to my boyfriend'.

If we're getting questions of the good variety, LIVE UP TO THE RULES!. As a community, we can ensure that no disaster tourist get their daily dose of kick here on IPS.

If we're getting questions on the bad variety, LIVE UP TO THE RULES!. Close them and add a comment that offers an explanation of how the post should be improved. Feel free to edit it yourself if you think you can. I'll be dropping of another answer on this soon on Let's start working on our help center "what to ask" text!

Answer 2

I have the same question. I was struck by "Relationships" being off topic. Isn't part of the whole point of having interpersonal skills to preserve relationships, however shallow or transient they may be? My question about being followed by a stranger in a car was essentially about a relationship: as someone in the neighborhood whom I haven't yet met, the guy is a potential future acquaintance with whom I would like to have an amicable relationship, hence the accepted answer.

I don't want this to be a dating advice site. That waitress question needed to be shut down quickly, and deleted. So far I'm the only delete vote, but it has 4 reopen votes! Clearly the expectations on this site are wildly dissimilar.

I don't have a solution that most people will agree with. I advocate close voting, down voting and deleting bad questions ASAP. I know people don't like to DV (for a lot of reasons I'm unsure of; I think the responsible use of a DV is critical to a site's quality.) But to delete a question as users (not mods) we need the question to have a net negative score.

The question is, what's a bad question? If four people think a question about how a waitress might possibly like you personally enough to date you... this question (what's a bad question?) is going to be very tough to answer.

Answer 3

Some things that can help maintain order on this site.

• Vote to close off-topic questions and questions that deal with the issues Shog outlined.
• BE CONSISTENT. Inconsistent enforcement is worse than none at all.
• Have a clear definition of what is on topic.
• Migrate questions that belong elsewhere.

Now, how to stick with interpersonal skills and what to ask.

There is a distinct difference between any of the topics you listed (and the rest of what Shog listed) and interpersonal skills involved in addressing things.

"My uncle is an obnoxious (fill in the political philosophy here). How do I tell him he's wrong?" Would be off topic. Whereas "My family tends to get into heated political debates during the holidays, how can I tactfully re-direct the conversation" would not be.

The focus needs to be on the interpersonal skills themselves such as tact, assertiveness versus aggressive or obsequious behaviors, how to approach subjects delicately, how to avoid unnecessary conflict, how to deal with mistakes, how to apologize for bad behavior, et cetera.

A person's politics, relationships, et cetera should be irrelevant, as it's the skills themselves that are important.

There may need to be some aggressive editing in the short term, but I think it would help.

Back to the political example I gave, editing a post from "My uncle is a rabid (fill in political affiliation here) and I just can't deal with him during the holidays, how do I tell him to keep his opinions to himself" into something like "How do I bow out from political discussions during family events during the holidays" or something else that removes the rant.

Ranting is, in general, off-topic and posts with rants should be shut down or edited quickly.

So... TLDR:

• Clearly define what is on and off topic
• Deal with rants quickly
• Flag comments aggressively
• Vote to close off-topic questions.
• Edit when possible.
• Focus on SKILLS over situations.

Answer 4

Since Interpersonal.SE has got off to a very good start, it is time for the community to be stricter about insisting that questions, answers and comments should be on-topic. This is necessary for the long term health of the website.

Reading the Community Manager's impressive post again I think the main and timely reminder to all users here on IPS is:

Answer the question if it is on-topic as defined in the help centre.

Don't discuss the background topic itself but only answer the question, focusing on the interpersonal issue.

Don't use this website as a platform to express your political or social opinions or debate these topics with other users.

In short, whatever be the background topic, a question should have a real and specific interpersonal issue to be on-topic for IPS.SE, and both answers and comments should address only the interpersonal issue while avoiding any discussion of the background topic.

In that context we do not really need to radically redefine what is off-topic for IPS.SE (which is already well defined in the help centre) but simply remember not to get sidetracked into general discussions of various social or political topics, and we must always be particular to focus only on the interpersonal issues while posting questions, answers and comments.

On the other hand, the help page for what is on-topic remains essentially 'under construction' and does not help a member know what topics are allowed here, as pointed out by @Mister Positive in a comment. We do need to be very clear and comprehensive in deciding and publishing what is on-topic for this website.

Let's start working on our help center "what to ask" text!

Answer 5

Provide your post with only relevant details.

If a person's political view is not important to the question/answer, don't mention it, at all.

If a person's sexual preference is not important to the question/answer, don't mention it, at all.

and so on.

---

If the OP do include some information that they deem relevant to the question, such as gender, country, sexual preference, or political view, treat it as a "cultural background". No need to tell them right/wrong, good/bad about it.

If you feel an information is irrelevant to the question, mention it at the comment, asking how it is relevant to the question.

As I interpret it, Shog's list of unwelcome discussion:

It is, most emphatically, NOT a site chartered to discuss any of the following:

• Human sexuality
• Relationships
• Neurolinguistic programming
• How to win friends and influence people
• Politics
• General discussion

does not make questions with those backgrounds off-topic. Rather, a post should tread carefully when it involves those topics. A question that asks for "how to stop argument with X hater" can be reworded to omit "X", and rather mention "different political view".

This does not ban a question from mentioning specific at all, if only by mentioning the political figure then the question makes sense, for example "X has recently do this", but only if it is really necessary and relevant to the question. Changing the name to a placeholder name, like Alice, Bob, X, Y, Z can work too!

Answer 6

The problem that I have with most the topics on Shog's list is that they tend to lend themselves to questions that are "too broad," and therefore not answerable. For instance, a bad "relationship" question might be something like, "My boyfriend/girlfriend wants to dominate me. Should I submit or leave?" A good answer to such a question requires a detailed analysis that is basically out of scope for the site.

On the other hand, a better, more answerable question on essentially the "same" topic is, "How can I tell my boyfriend/girlfriend that s/he is too bossy without jeopardizing our relationship?"